Cleaning the carbs 1: Difference between revisions

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==Pre-soaking, for really gooped-up carbs==

This is really just pre-soaking. It isn't a complete cleaning. It's still necessary to do the manual cleaning as shown later in this article and in [[Cleaning the carbs 2]]. For most carbs, pre-soaking is not necessary, but hand cleaning always is.

====Pine-Sol method====

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[[image:CBR600F 001.jpg|150px]]

[[image:CBR600F 002.jpg|~~150px~~]]

[[image:CBR600F 002.jpg|85px]]

[[image:CBR600F 003.jpg|~~150px~~]]

[[image:CBR600F 003.jpg|85px]]

[[image:CBR600F 005.jpg|150px]]

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Find a BIG container/bucket and some sort of fine wire rack or mesh sieve (like ones for a BBQ grill) that fits inside. The mesh will let all the yucky stuff that falls off settle on the bottom, and you won't have to fish around in the murky fluid looking for one washer or small bolt/screw. Pour enough of the Pine-Sol solution into the bucket to cover the carbs.

Soak the carbs and parts for about four days. Scrub the open areas just a bit with a toothbrush and green scrubby. Then do a normal [[Cleaning the carbs 2|carb cleaning]] for the jets and interior passages of the carbs. The ~~set of CBR600~~ carbs shown ~~in the pictures~~ at the top of this section now look like this, and the bike starts and runs well, without a lot of hard work.

Soak the carbs and parts for about four days. Scrub the open areas just a bit with a toothbrush and green scrubby. Then do a normal [[Cleaning the carbs 2|carb cleaning]] for the jets and interior passages of the carbs.

The carbs shown at the top of this section, from a bike that had sat outside so long there were chunks of dry-rotted tread falling off the tires, now look like this, and the bike starts and runs well, without a lot of hard work.

[[image:CBR600F 009.jpg|150px]]

For more information~~, read~~ further down this page, see [[Carburetor photos]], [[EX250 parts diagrams]], and look at the other parts of [[How do I work on the carbs?]].

For more information: Read further down this page, see [[Carburetor photos]], [[EX250 parts diagrams]], and look at the other parts of [[How do I work on the carbs?]].

====Berryman Chem Dip method====

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'''Notice''': You have to keep '''all rubber and paint''' well away from it (including rubber o-rings, diaphragms and seals). Hard plastic parts won't be affected. You'll want to wear gloves when you use it.

Try Pine-Sol first. It's less caustic and less likely to eat stuff if you keep the carbs in too long.

==Stuff you need and need to know==

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One important thought with regards to working on an engine is that any time you leave an opening to the engine you should block it. If you don't, then Murphy's law will just help you drop something inside. Paper towels are cheap and effective.

====Screwdriver notes====

It's VERY important that you use a [[A beginner's guide to maintenance tools|quality screwdriver]] that's the right size and in good condition. If you don't, then you're going to bugger up the screw and cause yourself more headaches than just buying and using the right tool in the first place. The screws on carbs, brake reservoirs and the 250 bar ends are notorious for being stiff to remove. Don't let something like this happen to you:

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[[Image:Brian_Carb_Clean_7.JPG|150px]]

A ~~note~~ on ~~screwdrivers~~: ~~Motorcyclist magazine, in its May 2007 edition, had~~ a ~~tech tip for~~ Japanese ~~carburetor screws~~. ~~Take~~ a ~~close look at~~ the ~~photo~~ above ~~while you read this~~. ~~This is quoted directly~~ from ~~the magazine,~~ and ~~no one from the board has tried these products~~, ~~but we do consider this~~ a ~~reliable source:~~

A lot of screws on Japanese products are Japanese Industrial Standard JIS 4633B-3/1991 and DIN/ISO standard 5260, aka "[http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/step10/JIS-Japanese-Industrial-Standard/ Japanese Phillips]". These usually have a dot to one side of the cross slot (above picture). Screwdrivers to fit these are available from [http://www.amessupply.com Ames Supply Company] and [http://www.katun.com Katun], among other places. Using a normal American/European #1 or #2 Phillips screwdriver in a screw head with the dot on it will most likely strip the head on the first try.

*It is quite often difficult to get the Phillips screws out of the carburetor float bowl~~. Those and a lot of other screws on Japanese products...~~ are ~~specifically Japanese Industrial Standard JIS 4633B-3/1991 and DIN/ISO standard 5260~~. ~~Note the dot~~ in ~~one corner of the cross formed by the slots... The Japanese-style Phillips~~ screwdrivers ~~are available from [http://www.amessupply.com Ames Supply Company] and [http://www.katun.com Katun]... Using~~ the ~~normal American/European #1 or #2 Phillips screwdriver~~ in a ~~screw head with the dot~~ on ~~it will most likely strip~~ the ~~head on the first try~~.

A couple other options for float bowl screw removal are listed below. Keep in mind that if alternative screwdrivers have any slop in the way they fit in your screw heads, you should probably have a vice grips handy. Whatever you do, plan on replacing the float bowl screws with allen-headed ones.

~~A couple other options~~ for ~~float bowl~~ screw ~~removal~~:

*Drywall driver bits work well for JIS screw heads. Some of our members have had very good results with these, and they're cheap.

*Try a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Pozidriv Pozidriv] screwdriver or bit (a #2 in this case). You may find that this fits the screw slots better than a regular phillips, although our man's success was on screws which were 'pre-rounded' by Mr Previous Owner.

*Take a Dremel and cut slots in the screws, then use a flathead screwdriver to remove the ridiculously soft metal screws. You may have to cut a piece off of the idle adjustment bracket to get at one of the screws.

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:[[Image:e7a7a786.jpg|150px]] [[Image:e7a7a782.jpg|150px]]

*~~Another, most likely easier, suggestion is to (carefully)~~ put the carbs in a bench vice and remove the screws with an impact driver~~, BEFORE~~ you strip them. ~~Whatever you do, plan on replacing the float bowl screws with allen-headed ones.~~

*Carefully put the carbs in a bench vice and remove the screws with an impact driver ''before'' you strip them.

*~~Another trick:~~ As long as you're going to replace ~~them~~ anyway, use vice grips. ~~By gripping~~ the screw top down and ~~holding~~ it hand tight (~~not clamping~~) ~~then twisting,~~ it should make a popping sound as it breaks free. As soon as it pops, stop twisting, get a phillips, and turn the screws out.

*As long as you're going to replace the screws anyway, use vice grips. Grip the screw top down and hold it hand tight (don't clamp it). Then twist; it should make a popping sound as it breaks free. As soon as it pops, stop twisting, get a phillips, and turn the screws out.

*One more: Drywall driver bits are great for JIS screw heads. Available at your local Home Depot or Ace Hardware. Whoever designed the drywall bit gave us a perfect JIS screwdriver substitute. They come in various sizes and they're cheap.

====Carb parts====

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[[Image:Brian_Carb_Clean_12.JPG|150px]]

For more views of these parts, see [[Carburetor photos]].

When you take out the main jet, the emulsion tube (called 'holder' in the left picture) is behind it, with the jet needle (also called 'collar') behind that. Be sure you get these little parts out (part #16017 on the diagram), as they could fall out on their own if you don't.

[[image:Jim carb 2.jpg|150px]]

[[image:846663-2.jpg|70px]]

[[image:CARBURETOR PARTS.png|50px]]

When you replace the collars, check in the carb intake to make sure they're poking through. They only go in one way. The longer, narrower end goes in first.

For more views of all these parts, see [[Carburetor photos]].

==The cleaning process==

Remove all of the above items prior to cleaning, except the enrichener pickup; that's part of the carb body. This should leave you with just an empty looking float bowl (~~well,~~ the ~~top of that chamber,~~ bottom of the carb ~~itself~~). This is the 'meat' of the carb. Up top is just the slide and needle (which will be touched on later in this article). You need to probe each and every hole with some wire. Twist a few strands together for the big holes, and just use 1 piece, slightly kinked up, for the smaller holes. You want to be sure to get ALL of the holes, like these on the side of the pilot jet:

Remove all of the above items prior to cleaning, except the enrichener pickup; that's part of the carb body. This should leave you with just an empty-looking float bowl (the bottom part of the carb). This is the 'meat' of the carb. Up top is just the slide and needle (which will be touched on later in this article). You need to probe each and every hole with some wire. Twist a few strands together for the big holes, and just use 1 piece, slightly kinked up, for the smaller holes. You want to be sure to get ALL of the holes, like these on the side of the pilot jet:

[[Image:Brian_Carb_Clean_13.JPG|150px]]

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Take the compressed cleaner and, using the straw, squirt fluid into every hole. You should have cleaner going into or coming out of each and every hole, though not all at the same time, and in the same volume as the other carb bodies. And it should be coming out clear (this one started greenish).

When it comes time to reassemble, the jets just screw back in, but you need to set the float height. Each set of carbs has a different recommended height (listed in the service manual for the given bike). If the floats hang too low, your bike can (and most likely will) run lean, and if they sit too high, you'll likely be fighting a rich running bike. The picture shows a special tool for measuring float height, but a 6" ruler, or even a basic set of calipers, can be used to measure the height. To measure, you want the floats to ''just'' be touching the fuel needle, which has a spring on it - you don't want to compress that. Most carbs can just be set upside down and the spring will hold the floats where they need to be; some carbs you'll need to tilt at an angle while doing the measuring. To adjust up or down, you just bend the small metal tang that rests on the fuel needle:

You should also consider cleaning up the fuel needle seats. The fuel needle fits into the big hole shown here. The tip fits into the small hole at the bottom and forms a seal. You want to clean the edge of that hole, so there isn't any crud that can cut the tip or hold it up (so it won't seal). Either of these will cause fuel to leak past.

[[image:P1000048-1024.JPG|150px]]

[[image:100_4971.jpg|150px]]

[[image:100_4970.jpg|150px]]

To do this, cut a Q-Tip in half in the middle of the stick and put it in a dremel. Put a little dab of [http://www.competitionchemicals.com/simichrome/ Simichrome] metal polish on the end and let it run at full speed for about a minute. Use the other end of the Q-Tip and carb cleaner to clean up the left-over gunk.

When it comes time to reassemble, the jets just screw back in, but you need to set the [[How do I adjust the floats?|float height]]. Each set of carbs has a different recommended height (listed in the service manual for the given bike). If the floats hang too low, your bike can (and most likely will) run lean, and if they sit too high, you'll likely be fighting a rich running bike. The picture shows a special tool for measuring float height, but a 6" ruler, or even a basic set of calipers, can be used to measure the height. To measure, you want the floats to ''just'' be touching the fuel needle, which has a spring on it - you don't want to compress that. Most carbs can just be set upside down and the spring will hold the floats where they need to be; some carbs you'll need to tilt at an angle while doing the measuring. To adjust up or down, you just bend the small metal tang that rests on the fuel needle:

[[Image:Brian_Carb_Clean_16.JPG|150px]]

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Here is the full [http://gallery.darladog.com/v/motorcycles/gsf400/carbcleaning/ gallery of photos] used in this write-up.

For another look at carb cleaning, with even more pictures, see [http://cycles.evanfell.com/2008/09/how-to-clean-a-motorcycle-carburetor-the-right-way/ Evan Fell's blog]

@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 ==Pre-soaking, for really gooped-up carbs==
+This is really just pre-soaking. It isn't a complete cleaning. It's still necessary to do the manual cleaning as shown later in this article and in [[Cleaning the carbs 2]]. For most carbs, pre-soaking is not necessary, but hand cleaning always is.
 ====Pine-Sol method====
@@ Line 18: / Line 20: @@
 [[image:CBR600F 001.jpg|150px]]
-[[image:CBR600F 002.jpg|150px]]
+[[image:CBR600F 002.jpg|85px]]
-[[image:CBR600F 003.jpg|150px]]
+[[image:CBR600F 003.jpg|85px]]
 [[image:CBR600F 005.jpg|150px]]
@@ Line 34: / Line 36: @@
 Find a BIG container/bucket and some sort of fine wire rack or mesh sieve (like ones for a BBQ grill) that fits inside. The mesh will let all the yucky stuff that falls off settle on the bottom, and you won't have to fish around in the murky fluid looking for one washer or small bolt/screw. Pour enough of the Pine-Sol solution into the bucket to cover the carbs.
-Soak the carbs and parts for about four days. Scrub the open areas just a bit with a toothbrush and green scrubby. Then do a normal [[Cleaning the carbs 2|carb cleaning]] for the jets and interior passages of the carbs. The set of CBR600 carbs shown in the pictures at the top of this section now look like this, and the bike starts and runs well, without a lot of hard work.
+Soak the carbs and parts for about four days. Scrub the open areas just a bit with a toothbrush and green scrubby. Then do a normal [[Cleaning the carbs 2|carb cleaning]] for the jets and interior passages of the carbs.
+The carbs shown at the top of this section, from a bike that had sat outside so long there were chunks of dry-rotted tread falling off the tires, now look like this, and the bike starts and runs well, without a lot of hard work.
 [[image:CBR600F 009.jpg|150px]]
-For more information, read further down this page, see [[Carburetor photos]], [[EX250 parts diagrams]], and look at the other parts of [[How do I work on the carbs?]].
+For more information: Read further down this page, see [[Carburetor photos]], [[EX250 parts diagrams]], and look at the other parts of [[How do I work on the carbs?]].
 ====Berryman Chem Dip method====
@@ Line 45: / Line 49: @@
 '''Notice''': You have to keep '''all rubber and paint''' well away from it (including rubber o-rings, diaphragms and seals). Hard plastic parts won't be affected. You'll want to wear gloves when you use it.
+Try Pine-Sol first. It's less caustic and less likely to eat stuff if you keep the carbs in too long.
 ==Stuff you need and need to know==
@@ Line 65: / Line 71: @@
 One important thought with regards to working on an engine is that any time you leave an opening to the engine you should block it. If you don't, then Murphy's law will just help you drop something inside. Paper towels are cheap and effective.
+====Screwdriver notes====
 It's VERY important that you use a [[A beginner's guide to maintenance tools|quality screwdriver]] that's the right size and in good condition. If you don't, then you're going to bugger up the screw and cause yourself more headaches than just buying and using the right tool in the first place. The screws on carbs, brake reservoirs and the 250 bar ends are notorious for being stiff to remove. Don't let something like this happen to you:
@@ Line 70: / Line 78: @@
 [[Image:Brian_Carb_Clean_7.JPG|150px]]
-A note on screwdrivers: Motorcyclist magazine, in its May 2007 edition, had a tech tip for Japanese carburetor screws. Take a close look at the photo above while you read this. This is quoted directly from the magazine, and no one from the board has tried these products, but we do consider this a reliable source:
+A lot of screws on Japanese products are Japanese Industrial Standard JIS 4633B-3/1991 and DIN/ISO standard 5260, aka "[http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/step10/JIS-Japanese-Industrial-Standard/ Japanese Phillips]". These usually have a dot to one side of the cross slot (above picture). Screwdrivers to fit these are available from [http://www.amessupply.com Ames Supply Company] and [http://www.katun.com Katun], among other places. Using a normal American/European #1 or #2 Phillips screwdriver in a screw head with the dot on it will most likely strip the head on the first try.
-*It is quite often difficult to get the Phillips screws out of the carburetor float bowl. Those and a lot of other screws on Japanese products... are specifically Japanese Industrial Standard JIS 4633B-3/1991 and DIN/ISO standard 5260. Note the dot in one corner of the cross formed by the slots... The Japanese-style Phillips screwdrivers are available from [http://www.amessupply.com Ames Supply Company] and [http://www.katun.com Katun]... Using the normal American/European #1 or #2 Phillips screwdriver in a screw head with the dot on it will most likely strip the head on the first try.
+A couple other options for float bowl screw removal are listed below. Keep in mind that if alternative screwdrivers have any slop in the way they fit in your screw heads, you should probably have a vice grips handy. Whatever you do, plan on replacing the float bowl screws with allen-headed ones.
-A couple other options for float bowl screw removal:
+*Drywall driver bits work well for JIS screw heads. Some of our members have had very good results with these, and they're cheap.
+*Try a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Pozidriv Pozidriv] screwdriver or bit (a #2 in this case). You may find that this fits the screw slots better than a regular phillips, although our man's success was on screws which were 'pre-rounded' by Mr Previous Owner.
 *Take a Dremel and cut slots in the screws, then use a flathead screwdriver to remove the ridiculously soft metal screws. You may have to cut a piece off of the idle adjustment bracket to get at one of the screws.
@@ Line 80: / Line 90: @@
 :[[Image:e7a7a786.jpg|150px]]  [[Image:e7a7a782.jpg|150px]]
-*Another, most likely easier, suggestion is to (carefully) put the carbs in a bench vice and remove the screws with an impact driver, BEFORE you strip them. Whatever you do, plan on replacing the float bowl screws with allen-headed ones.
+*Carefully put the carbs in a bench vice and remove the screws with an impact driver ''before'' you strip them.
-*Another trick: As long as you're going to replace them anyway, use vice grips. By gripping the screw top down and holding it hand tight (not clamping) then twisting, it should make a popping sound as it breaks free. As soon as it pops, stop twisting, get a phillips, and turn the screws out.
+*As long as you're going to replace the screws anyway, use vice grips. Grip the screw top down and hold it hand tight (don't clamp it). Then twist; it should make a popping sound as it breaks free. As soon as it pops, stop twisting, get a phillips, and turn the screws out.
-*One more: Drywall driver bits are great for JIS screw heads. Available at your local Home Depot or Ace Hardware. Whoever designed the drywall bit gave us a perfect JIS screwdriver substitute. They come in various sizes and they're cheap.
 ====Carb parts====
@@ Line 110: / Line 118: @@
 [[Image:Brian_Carb_Clean_12.JPG|150px]]
-For more views of these parts, see [[Carburetor photos]].
+When you take out the main jet, the emulsion tube (called 'holder' in the left picture) is behind it, with the jet needle (also called 'collar') behind that. Be sure you get these little parts out (part #16017 on the diagram), as they could fall out on their own if you don't.
+[[image:Jim carb 2.jpg|150px]]
+[[image:846663-2.jpg|70px]]
+[[image:CARBURETOR PARTS.png|50px]]
+When you replace the collars, check in the carb intake to make sure they're poking through. They only go in one way. The longer, narrower end goes in first.
+For more views of all these parts, see [[Carburetor photos]].
 ==The cleaning process==
-Remove all of the above items prior to cleaning, except the enrichener pickup; that's part of the carb body. This should leave you with just an empty looking float bowl (well, the top of that chamber, bottom of the carb itself). This is the 'meat' of the carb. Up top is just the slide and needle (which will be touched on later in this article). You need to probe each and every hole with some wire. Twist a few strands together for the big holes, and just use 1 piece, slightly kinked up, for the smaller holes. You want to be sure to get ALL of the holes, like these on the side of the pilot jet:
+Remove all of the above items prior to cleaning, except the enrichener pickup; that's part of the carb body. This should leave you with just an empty-looking float bowl (the bottom part of the carb). This is the 'meat' of the carb. Up top is just the slide and needle (which will be touched on later in this article). You need to probe each and every hole with some wire. Twist a few strands together for the big holes, and just use 1 piece, slightly kinked up, for the smaller holes. You want to be sure to get ALL of the holes, like these on the side of the pilot jet:
 [[Image:Brian_Carb_Clean_13.JPG|150px]]
@@ Line 128: / Line 144: @@
 Take the compressed cleaner and, using the straw, squirt fluid into every hole. You should have cleaner going into or coming out of each and every hole, though not all at the same time, and in the same volume as the other carb bodies. And it should be coming out clear (this one started greenish).
-When it comes time to reassemble, the jets just screw back in, but you need to set the float height. Each set of carbs has a different recommended height (listed in the service manual for the given bike). If the floats hang too low, your bike can (and most likely will) run lean, and if they sit too high, you'll likely be fighting a rich running bike. The picture shows a special tool for measuring float height, but a 6" ruler, or even a basic set of calipers, can be used to measure the height. To measure, you want the floats to ''just'' be touching the fuel needle, which has a spring on it - you don't want to compress that. Most carbs can just be set upside down and the spring will hold the floats where they need to be; some carbs you'll need to tilt at an angle while doing the measuring. To adjust up or down, you just bend the small metal tang that rests on the fuel needle:
+You should also consider cleaning up the fuel needle seats. The fuel needle fits into the big hole shown here. The tip fits into the small hole at the bottom and forms a seal. You want to clean the edge of that hole, so there isn't any crud that can cut the tip or hold it up (so it won't seal). Either of these will cause fuel to leak past.
+[[image:P1000048-1024.JPG|150px]]
+[[image:100_4971.jpg|150px]]
+[[image:100_4970.jpg|150px]]
+To do this, cut a Q-Tip in half in the middle of the stick and put it in a dremel. Put a little dab of [http://www.competitionchemicals.com/simichrome/ Simichrome] metal polish on the end and let it run at full speed for about a minute. Use the other end of the Q-Tip and carb cleaner to clean up the left-over gunk.
+When it comes time to reassemble, the jets just screw back in, but you need to set the [[How do I adjust the floats?|float height]]. Each set of carbs has a different recommended height (listed in the service manual for the given bike). If the floats hang too low, your bike can (and most likely will) run lean, and if they sit too high, you'll likely be fighting a rich running bike. The picture shows a special tool for measuring float height, but a 6" ruler, or even a basic set of calipers, can be used to measure the height. To measure, you want the floats to ''just'' be touching the fuel needle, which has a spring on it - you don't want to compress that. Most carbs can just be set upside down and the spring will hold the floats where they need to be; some carbs you'll need to tilt at an angle while doing the measuring. To adjust up or down, you just bend the small metal tang that rests on the fuel needle:
 [[Image:Brian_Carb_Clean_16.JPG|150px]]
@@ Line 149: / Line 173: @@
 Here is the full [http://gallery.darladog.com/v/motorcycles/gsf400/carbcleaning/ gallery of photos] used in this write-up.
+For another look at carb cleaning, with even more pictures, see [http://cycles.evanfell.com/2008/09/how-to-clean-a-motorcycle-carburetor-the-right-way/ Evan Fell's blog]